Posts by Giles Gray

11

Tried One Last Time In The Kingdom Hall...

by pale.emperor in

so last thursday was meeting day.

my wife knows my thoughts on this religion and respects my fade and is completely ok with it (which surprised me, and also made me love her even more).

i think she must know it's all crack-pot stuff but seeing as her whole family are all in and about 98% of them cant even explain their beleifs without a watchtower on hand i think she's just going along for the friends/family/social side of it.

Giles Gray

sister gagging-for-it-but-pretending-that-she-isnt

LOL! So funny... and so many...

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

Believer

"This 6th sense is how we perceive spiritual things. The 5 senses are objective and can be authenticated in a way that others readily accept, i.e., they can taste, touch, see, hear, smell it too. But the 6th sense is subjective. It is a personal understanding or epiphany or revelation."

The 5 primary senses are all of them fallible and can easily deceive the mind. The '6th sense', however, is notoriously inaccurate and misleading. How can you distinguish, with any certainty, the difference between a supposed revelation, from a very convincing psychotic delusion, when the conviction for both is the same?

Believer

"One person cannot prove their personal spiritual revelations to another. He may be able to articulate it, but authenticating it can only occur if the other person is also able to perceive it through their 6th sense. But a spiritual revelation is just as real to a person who uses that sense as are the things perceived with the animal senses"

So if someone has an experience that feels real to them, does it prove that it is real?

Believer

" if Satan wrote the bible, that would be proof that God and other supernatural beings exist. Right?"

Not at all. That's an assumption based on the 6th sense. What's stopping Satan from inventing fictitious characters for his story book, like George Lucas inventing Darth Vader?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

Believer

"Now, the questions you ask are questions that would be posed by a mind that cannot really know anything. So flighty and philosophical."

My questions were asked purely from a practical, easy to understand perspective.

If you think they are in any way "philosophical" you might not have read them carefully enough.

Believer

"It is hard to have a conversation with a mind that thinks like the wind. But let’s do this another day, when you have real questions that can spark an intelligent conversation."

Maybe i have given you too many questions at once. So I'll just ask one, simple question.

If "we don't have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses...", as you said in your earlier post, how can anyone know if a supernatural experience is authentic?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

Believer
We may know now which men, but I think its pretty clear and widely accepted that it was written by men. I’ve never heard a valid argument that supports a conclusion that it was written by Satan.

My point wasn't to do with who wrote the bible. It's mainly attributed to being inspired of god, so effectivly he wrote it.

My point followed on from your comment where you said that "we don't have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses..."

So even if an angel appeared to you, how would you know it was not some spiritual hoax by some other being acting as an angel?

If Jesus materialised right in front of you, how would or could you know that it wasn't actually Zeus playing a game?

My point is, if you have no way to perceive the spiritual relm, as you rightly say, how can you know if any supernatural experience is authentic?

And if Satan wrote the bible, how do you know that he hasn't tricked everyone into thinking otherwise? What valid argument could prove or disprove such a claim?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

And since we don’t have the capacity to experience spiritual things through our senses, who knows what other spiritual things there might be.

Good point.

So how do we know the bible isn't a hoax written by Satan? How could you know for sure?

240

Introduction - Any Believers?

by Believer in

i’ve been reading it for a few of years off and on, but have been a little too ... maybe ... timid to join.

i left the watchtower organization almost 20 years ago but never abandoned my faith and belief in god.

i knew the gb/organization didn’t represent god, so when i lost my faith in them, i managed to keep my faith in an all wise benevolent creator.

Giles Gray

ok let's say we come from monkeys...so why haven't we met anyone who just became a human (someone walking around naked & saying...Hey, I just evolved from being a Monkey, what's this human thing about (LOL....why are monkey's still monkey's...

Please tell me you're kidding...

32

Life of Brian

by berrygerry in

i was a younger dub at the time of this release, and stopped watching this movie near its beginning, when john cleese was stoned with the huge rock for saying jehovah.. this was despite having been (and continuing to be) a major john cleese (and monty python) fan.. any fans of this film?.

Giles Gray

Welease wod-a-wick...

Crucifixion? Good. Over there. Take the line on the left. One cross each.

119

Jehovah's Witness Recovery is no more...

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i just tried to go to the site and there is a goodbye message.

i was a member there since 2010. i was really surprised.

i had just started posting there again after being away for a while.

Giles Gray

Ooige

As I pointed out, there are people that are trapped in and my heart goes out to them, it really does.

My post was more to try to encourage people who could and maybe should have moved on to put the past fully behind them and move on to a richer life free from anything JW.

There is so much more in life to attain when you fully move on.

119

Jehovah's Witness Recovery is no more...

by TimeBandit in

jw
friends

i just tried to go to the site and there is a goodbye message.

i was a member there since 2010. i was really surprised.

i had just started posting there again after being away for a while.

Giles Gray

This is going to sound harsh and might upset a few people, which isn't my intention, but the site shutting down may be a blessing in disguise for many.

Forums like these are vital in helping vulnerable people, like those who are just exiting from the JWs. We have all been there and know how valuable they can be.

But there is a harmful aspect that people need to be cautious of and that is how easily people can become reliant on these sites.

I see these sites as an aid to recovery from the trauma of being exposed to a harmful cult like religion. They help people with the transition from cult life, to being strong enough to be able to live and cope with the real world. To become just a normal person if you like.

Long term dependence on these sites inhibits the ability for people to move on properly with their lives and living in the real world. Full recovery from the JWs is the only healthy place people leaving should aspire to and that means living and coping in the world outside the religion.

If people linger around sites like JWR too long, they can end up in a situation of permanent reliance. That's when sites like these become unhealthy.

The fact that so many people are coming here from JWR feeling such loss makes me suspicious that they have become too dependent, when really they could and should have moved on before now.

Won't apply to everyone obviously. Some people who are out but have believing family can't just move on, for example.

But I feel that people need to ask the question that if the abrupt dissolving of a web site upsets them that much, have they really moved on with their lives for the better? Rather than make this site "your new home", maybe it's time to embrace the real world and truly leave behind all things JW.

Oh, and just to explain why I'm here, I got sucked back just because I wanted to challenge one of the members on here who persistently cheats in their arguments.

I must have been feeling weak that day.

26

Are the witnesses really False prophets?

by MrTheocratic in

when you read the following statements from the wt.

organization... do they satisfy you?

or better stated...... should you be satisfied by there answers?.

Giles Gray

The best reply to the statment that JWs don't claim to be 'inspired prophets' is to point out to them that you don't have to claim to be inspired to be a false prophet. What false prophet was ever inspired anyway?

It's a bit of a play on words but it works very well.

On the point of the apostles having wrong ideas, there is no biblical proof that they shared their wrong ideas in their ministry, unlike JWs.

The other point to bring out is that Jesus corrected the wrong ideas of the apostles right away. He didn't leave them to promote their wrong ideas for 70 years or more, excusing such errors to the fact they were imperfect men. If Jesus is directing them now, why is he not continuing to correct his followers like he did in Acts 1:6

Both of these points contrast the truely appointed from the self appointed. The fact is that JWs are false prophets even by their own definition and standards.